Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Really? The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. That focus drifts. He points to it in the video. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. But breaking news here, skippy. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Sound familiar? Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? These officers are not gunfighters. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Thats deflecting from the real issue. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! On Thursday, M.D. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. The new Kirk does suck. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Excellent work. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Mine is very accurate. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. 1:07. Nope. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . A fine of up to $10,000. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. LOL! While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Sig can burn for all I care. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Sigs are crap! You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Would you? That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. 00:03. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Fair enough. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! congrats. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Zero in the affirmative. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. how do I get one for my P320? is the manual safety a kit you add? As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. Wont last!. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Fine. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. How about something more relevant. D. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? PDs are dropping them from contracts. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it.
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