The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. Saruman also experimented with the making of a Ring of his own. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. When he saw Aragorn marching on the Black Gate, he was afraid. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. As mentioned, the Valar sent the Istari (who are Maiar spirits) to Middle-earth. Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can . The thing is, that wouldn't be a simple task. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. The key thing to note is that Sauron, by the time of the War of the Ring, lacked the ability to take a. I would not be too sure that Sauron would be the victor, as Saruman spent long years in study of ring-lore. How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Not true. It's a good question. Answer (1 of 3): In short: nobody else could use it against him. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? By the time that happened, little would be left but the ruins of the world in the aftermath of Saurons great war to regain the ring. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Which routine is best for gaining muscle? He believed that Sauron would never return, so he had his own set of schemes. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. Virginia. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. If any being who had the power to use the Ring to its full potential had gotten ahold of it, that being would have been able to easily take on Sauron. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Probably, upon creation, Saruman was weaker than Gandalf and Sauron, and he spent his entire existence trying to increase his power, leading to his jealousy of Gandalf and eventual betrayal. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Or perhaps his lust for power would have blinded him to that? Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? How could Sauron defeat Saruman, or even pay him a visit if he's disembodied? Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? The Ring merely corrupted you, it did not control you. He had also extensively started studying the lore required to make his own ring of power. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. Just like when Sauron, arguably the most powerful 'mage' of that time, did during the last alliance the one where he lost due to a mere human? He now lives with his family in Lynchburg VA and is an avid outdoorsman. If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. its forging) to end (the . Will to conquer all life in Middle-earth was the last bit I believe. - his malice and domination, or something like that. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! Also, it says in the book that the Nazgul went to Isengard demanding news of the ring and if Sauraman had the ring, Sauraman said if I had the ring you would bow down to me and call me lord I think Saruman would've won if he captured the ring. Would Sauron be able to open two fronts, battling against Isengard and Gondor? She's an Elf, So Has a Very Long Lifespan. In what way? He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? All of Saruman's scheming nearly came to fruition in The Two Towers. I'm a little vague on this point. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. What Would Happen if Saruman Got the One Ring in LOTR? But if The Rings of Power already called dibs on Gandalf's origins, there's always the tale of what the grey wizard got up to between The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, a story so worthwhile . What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron with the power of the One Ring? Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. Exactly. Well Gandalf and Galadriel were pretty confident in their ability to defeat Sauron using One Ring! This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. In his mind, it was the only logical thing to do, and he offered Gandalf a place by his side. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. All credit must go to the talented artists. The Lord Of The Rings. You must log in or register to reply here. For example, Beregond is reprimanded for leaving his post but is assigned to a position of honor by Aragorn in recognition of why he disobeyed. Did Aragorn ever offer the ring to Frodo? Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. Tolkien. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. Thank you! Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? . Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. CK Goksoy - https://www.artstation.com/ckgoksoyIvan Cavini - https://www.ivancavini.comTed Nasmith - https://www.tednasmith.comPeter Xavier Price https://www.deviantart.com/peetAdam Middleton - https://www.artstation.com/adammiddMagali Villeneuve - http://www.magali-villeneuve.comThumbnail Art: \"Saruman\" - (Artist Unknown)\"Black Orcs, Uruk Hai\" - Skinny22\"The Ring\" - Helm1892Art in order of First appearance:Saruman - (Artist Unknown)Saruman with the Palantir kuliszuThe One Ring - benjamin-lindquistMiddle Earth KlaradoxWay to Mordor IribelIsengard Uruk - Tey BartolomeThe Riders of Rohan TurnerMohanSaruman OtisFramptonSaruman the White DanielGovarSauron The Lord of the Rings - William FaucherSaruman fanart - Samthalsabey-ArtSauron - AnotherStranger-MeSaruman the White - YoungPhoenix3191Saruman VihrushkaGandalf the White - Suzanne-Helmigh Saruman AlMaNeGrAFortress of Isengard monpuasajrBlack Orcs, Uruk Hai - Skinny22Helms Deep - Paul LasaineUruk-hai AlexBocaOne Ring to Rule Them All (LOTR) AnatoFinnstarkThe White Rider ralphdamianiEdoras AllrichArtSaruman - Cocoz42The One Ring - LOTR - Jimmy-AppeltSaruman the White adenryTheoden, King of Rohan ArtisAllanRohan peetAmon Din aegeriSaruman JleonardKSaruman jalvMinas Tirith SamscrapbookGandalf the White FacuamThe last march of the Ents GrazianoRoccataniThe Istari - Ivan Cavini(Gwaihir saves Gandalf - Miruna-Lavinia)(Ents TolyanMy)Treason of Isengard lostknightkgSaruman gaberoseartSaruman - KelseyMH33Merry and Pippin icanfeeltheearthturnSaruman of Many Colours TolmanCottonSaruman and the Palantir malibunnySaruman the White pfodraThe Five Istari (Wizards) - (Arist Unknown)Saruman - aquiles-soirBattle of Dale - (Artist Unknown)Sauron NynseiSaruman the White MattDeMinoOrc Warrior - (Artist Unknown)Nazgul StyooNazgul darekzabrockiSauron Jerry VandersteltUruk-Hai JHKrisSauron War of the Last Alliance MattDeMinoSaruman - malara-artWitch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-IbucultaSaruman LychnobiaSaruman - Concept-Art-HouseSauron-As He Sat The One Ring Upon His Finger IngvildSchageArt----------All content falls under fair use: any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and transformative purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. They are not beasts. It wasn't really a surprise. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! Who is more popular Leonardo DiCaprio or Tom Cruise? vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? He still had the nine, and perhaps some of the seven. He fought Uruk-hai (who had captured Merry and Pippin thinking they were Frodo) and were enroute to Isengard. It does not store any personal data. The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). I don't think it would have made Saruman invincible, and, after all, he still would still have had to contend for instance with Treebeard and the Ents, as well as with Sauron. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! You would have both Saruman and Sauron focused in the same area and it is very unlikely Frodo would have escaped that level of scrutiny even with Gollum leading him on secret paths. It would be difficult for Sauron. " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? How might the Ring have helped Saruman in his empire-building? Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. But if Eomer hadn't disobeyed orders? Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram. His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? But eventually the Ring would subvert their efforts and bring about evil. If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. You are using an out of date browser. While Frodo and his companions know that Sauron is an embodiment of . Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. He starts on a similar path as Gandalf, but his choices and hunger for power lead him to evil. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? Saruman didn't know what Gandalf wanted to say, but he could guess. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. It was literally Sauron's essence made into an inanimate object. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. Saruman comes to look down on hobbits. 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? 1. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. Plus, if the Stranger is Saruman, it also makes Gandalfs journey and decisions all the more important and emphasizes an ongoing theme in Tolkiens works: every being has the power to choose between good and evil, or selflessness vs. selfishness. Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. But I've been thinking. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. That's information that either could potentially use to tip the balance, but perhaps Saruman would also have had awareness that a contest with Sauron was one that he couldn't possibly win? I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. No one could even comprehend the length of His existence. How successful would Saruman be finding and capturing the Ringbearer in this scenario is speculative but one has to wonder would Sauron not notice this activity. Nor do we how long would it have taken for Saruman to master the powers of the Ring. Doom. The power they have is to give stature to the wearer in the minds of others, and to enhance the emotional strength of the wearer, in the manner desired by their maker. (Letter 246). JavaScript is disabled. A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. Either way, the good guys loose big. I don't think we've been given enough information to say whether Saruman or Sauron would have won the fight. Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Saurons power (and Gandalfs too). But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Soon (convenient term, soon) I will begin on the second volume of The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.It consists of two 'books', The Treason of Isengard and The Ring Goes East.The first 'book' of the volume deals with the adventures of Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas as they go in search of Merry and Pippin; this puts them all in conflict with the traitorous wizard Saruman's machinations. What happens next? I think the real point has been missed. A limit involving the quotient of two sums. What are the benefits of digital signatures? The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? Cookie Notice Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. A place where magic is studied and practiced? What about Galadrial? Tolkiens complex writings and retcons dont reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. How did Saruman become corrupted? My own feeling is that since it takes time to learn to master the Ring (also Letter 246), Sauron would have had to pay a visit immediately and before Saruman had the time to achieve this mastery. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Frodo was a hobbit with one companion, in the heart of Sauron's realm. He is, I suppose, the same order of creature as Sauron himself, so could he? Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. Is he stronger than the will of the ring? The Silmarillion says Saruman was the eldest Istari and came first. What happens next would depend on Sauron himself; whether he would seek to retake the Ring immediately; whether he would visit Saruman himself or send a lesser servant. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. I imagine it'd be a similar situation as if Gandalf or Saruman got The Ring. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. He and his servants already knew of his involvement in the attack on the Fellowship and the capture of the hobbits. The question of what Saruman would have done therefore becomes moot since it seems inevitable that Sauron would have been the stronger. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. That he will never do now.". It may not display this or other websites correctly. We know that one of the elven rings was gifted to Gandalf. Again Aragorn refuses it, apparently without any internal struggle whatsoever. As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. He'd have used his bird spies to scour the area and sent out Uruks on wargs and men on horses. Still, this is a point to consider. He concealed his identity and ran away whenever he was confronted. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. JavaScript is disabled. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. Two Blue Wizards went with Saruman into the East. Any idea what set any of these are from? 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Gandalf was going to announce that Sauron had found the Ring. Sauron was the Dark Lord in The Lord of the Rings saga, written by J.R.R. The Ring still wants to be with its true master. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. mostly minifigs and decorated bricks. I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. There's a moment near the end of The Two Towers when one of the Nazgul comes literally within arms' reach of the Ring.It happens in the ruined city of Osgiliath. Sorry, memory fails me ATM. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! Furthermore, Saruman knows more about ring-lore than any other being in Middle Earth at the time, save only Sauron himself, and he had already made himself a minor ring, so he would learn how to use it quickly. Not unless Saruman got the ring. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: "they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force."
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